changing permissions read only directories

Programs and data that are copied from a CD-ROM or other source frequently are stored in a new directory that is set as read only. As a user with administrative privileges, you can remove the read only flag, but the system then re-sets it after exiting Windows Explorer. The only way to permanently change the security setting is to go through an awkward procedure to set the directory read/write for (all) users. I am puzzled that the flag can be set to read/write, but it doesn't stay set. Also, the security isn't of much value because an odd work around is to temporarily set the security with Windows Explorer, then leave Explorer open at this point. You can then write into the directory with another program. Write protection is only re-enabled after an exit from Explorer. The system should obviously not permit a change in read/write unless the user has permission to make this a permanent change. Robbie

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:54:08 -0400, Robert Robinson wrote:

Programs and data that are copied from a CD-ROM or other source frequently are stored in a new directory that is set as read only. As a user with administrative privileges, you can remove the read only flag, but the system then re-sets it after exiting Windows Explorer. The only way to permanently change the security setting is to go through an awkward procedure to set the directory read/write for (all) users. I am puzzled that the flag can be set to read/write, but it doesn't stay set. Also, the security isn't of much value because an odd work around is to temporarily set the security with Windows Explorer, then leave Explorer open at this point. You can then write into the directory with another program. Write protection is only re-enabled after an exit from Explorer. The system should obviously not permit a change in read/write unless the user has permission to make this a permanent change. Robbie

Hi Robbie,
I have currently given up with this beta, the file permissions, UAC etc cause far too many problems and get in the way of using the thing. It appears to me as a bit of a dogs breakfast in its current form. Fair enough its a lot more secure than XP but as a knowlegeable user when I ask for admin control I want full admin control I do not need to waste my time working around security when in logged in as admin.
I will wait for RC1 and see if they have improved things a bit in this area.
Having said that the over paranoid security issues / lack of full admin control are the only thing I have against Vista other than that I like it very much.
Put a bug report in, hopefully MSFT will fix admin control properly, either you are root or not, this middle ground least access stuff is just silly.
Jonah

Robert Robinson wrote:

Programs and data that are copied from a CD-ROM or other source frequently are stored in a new directory that is set as read only. As a user with administrative privileges, you can remove the read only flag, but the system then re-sets it after exiting Windows Explorer. The only way to permanently change the security setting is to go through an awkward procedure to set the directory read/write for (all) users. I am puzzled that the flag can be set to read/write, but it doesn't stay set. Also, the security isn't of much value because an odd work around is to temporarily set the security with Windows Explorer, then leave Explorer open at this point. You can then write into the directory with another program. Write protection is only re-enabled after an exit from Explorer. The system should obviously not permit a change in read/write unless the user has permission to make this a permanent change. Robbie

If you are talking about the read only attribute and not NTFS permissions then that may have been carried over from XP. In XP all folders have the read only attribute by default. It is ignored by Windows as it is used for other purposes. If the files are marked read only or the NTFS permissions for the folder only give you read permission then something different is happening.
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=326549
Don't know if this still applies to Vista. My Vista computer is in another room :-)
-- Kerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

"Kerry Brown" wrote in message

Robert Robinson wrote: Programs and data that are copied from a CD-ROM or other source frequently are stored in a new directory that is set as read only. As a user with administrative privileges, you can remove the read only flag, but the system then re-sets it after exiting Windows Explorer. The only way to permanently change the security setting is to go through an awkward procedure to set the directory read/write for (all) users. I am puzzled that the flag can be set to read/write, but it doesn't stay set. Also, the security isn't of much value because an odd work around is to temporarily set the security with Windows Explorer, then leave Explorer open at this point. You can then write into the directory with another program. Write protection is only re-enabled after an exit from Explorer. The system should obviously not permit a change in read/write unless the user has permission to make this a permanent change. Robbie
If you are talking about the read only attribute and not NTFS permissions then that may have been carried over from XP. In XP all folders have the read only attribute by default. It is ignored by Windows as it is used for other purposes. If the files are marked read only or the NTFS permissions for the folder only give you read permission then something different is happening.
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=326549
Don't know if this still applies to Vista. My Vista computer is in another room :-)

I just checked on a Vista machine and this is indeed the case. All folders show the read only attribute. It is ignored by the OS.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User

Security is a big issue with Beta 2. I have set all the permisions to all accounts to full control and yet when I try to save a file to a formatted partition, I am denied access and I am asked to save the file under a recommend user folder. OK, so I did that instead. I try using Explorer to retrive the downloaded file and no matter what setting's I use, I am unable to see that the file exists. I then try to download the file again and save it to the exact folder and it already exists. I can not retrieve the file. Am I missing something as well?

Are saving files when downloading through IE or are you having problems with all programs saving files? I just tried a download from downloads.com. I was able to create a new folder and save the download there all from within the file save dialog. I am running as a standard user. I didn't even get any UAC dialogs. Please be more specific about what you are trying to do.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message

Security is a big issue with Beta 2. I have set all the permisions to all accounts to full control and yet when I try to save a file to a formatted partition, I am denied access and I am asked to save the file under a recommend user folder. OK, so I did that instead. I try using Explorer to retrive the downloaded file and no matter what setting's I use, I am unable to see that the file exists. I then try to download the file again and save it to the exact folder and it already exists. I can not retrieve the file. Am I missing something as well?

I set up a 160GB hard drive with three partitions. When I try to save anything on either of the second or third partition, it comes up with access denied. I downloaded the 64bit ISO file for Vista and wanted to save it to one of the partitions and the same happened- access denied (do you want to save it to C:\user\richard? So I clicked yes and it downloaded and is saved. When i browse for it it is no where to be found. I start to download it again and save it to the same location and it already exists. What permissions am I missing to access my own user directory?
"Kerry Brown" wrote:

Are saving files when downloading through IE or are you having problems with all programs saving files? I just tried a download from downloads.com. I was able to create a new folder and save the download there all from within the file save dialog. I am running as a standard user. I didn't even get any UAC dialogs. Please be more specific about what you are trying to do.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message Security is a big issue with Beta 2. I have set all the permisions to all accounts to full control and yet when I try to save a file to a formatted partition, I am denied access and I am asked to save the file under a recommend user folder. OK, so I did that instead. I try using Explorer to retrive the downloaded file and no matter what setting's I use, I am unable to see that the file exists. I then try to download the file again and save it to the exact folder and it already exists. I can not retrieve the file. Am I missing something as well?

I set up a 160GB hard drive with three partitions. When I try to save anything on either of the second or third partition, it comes up with access denied. I downloaded the 64bit ISO file for Vista and wanted to save it to one of the partitions and the same happened- access denied (do you want to save it to C:\user\richard? So I clicked yes and it downloaded and is saved. When i browse for it it is no where to be found. I start to download it again and save it to the same location and it already exists. What permissions am I missing to access my own user directory?
"Kerry Brown" wrote:

Are saving files when downloading through IE or are you having problems with all programs saving files? I just tried a download from downloads.com. I was able to create a new folder and save the download there all from within the file save dialog. I am running as a standard user. I didn't even get any UAC dialogs. Please be more specific about what you are trying to do.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message Security is a big issue with Beta 2. I have set all the permisions to all accounts to full control and yet when I try to save a file to a formatted partition, I am denied access and I am asked to save the file under a recommend user folder. OK, so I did that instead. I try using Explorer to retrive the downloaded file and no matter what setting's I use, I am unable to see that the file exists. I then try to download the file again and save it to the exact folder and it already exists. I can not retrieve the file. Am I missing something as well?

I set up a 160GB hard drive with three partitions. When I try to save anything on either of the second or third partition, it comes up with access denied. I downloaded the 64bit ISO file for Vista and wanted to save it to one of the partitions and the same happened- access denied (do you want to save it to C:\user\richard? So I clicked yes and it downloaded and is saved. When i browse for it it is no where to be found. I start to download it again and save it to the same location and it already exists. What permissions am I missing to access my own user directory? "Kerry Brown" wrote:

Are saving files when downloading through IE or are you having problems with all programs saving files? I just tried a download from downloads.com. I was able to create a new folder and save the download there all from within the file save dialog. I am running as a standard user. I didn't even get any UAC dialogs. Please be more specific about what you are trying to do.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message Security is a big issue with Beta 2. I have set all the permisions to all accounts to full control and yet when I try to save a file to a formatted partition, I am denied access and I am asked to save the file under a recommend user folder. OK, so I did that instead. I try using Explorer to retrive the downloaded file and no matter what setting's I use, I am unable to see that the file exists. I then try to download the file again and save it to the exact folder and it already exists. I can not retrieve the file. Am I missing something as well?

Are you using the Microsoft File Transfer Manager? I have the same problem in Windows XP when downloading from MSDN. I never worried about it as it only happened when downloading with MFTM. It would only let me save to My Documents or a folder in My Documents. I don't know why you can't see it. Try searching for the file.
-- Kerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
Richard wrote:

I set up a 160GB hard drive with three partitions. When I try to save anything on either of the second or third partition, it comes up with access denied. I downloaded the 64bit ISO file for Vista and wanted to save it to one of the partitions and the same happened- access denied (do you want to save it to C:\user\richard? So I clicked yes and it downloaded and is saved. When i browse for it it is no where to be found. I start to download it again and save it to the same location and it already exists. What permissions am I missing to access my own user directory?
"Kerry Brown" wrote:
Are saving files when downloading through IE or are you having problems with all programs saving files? I just tried a download from downloads.com. I was able to create a new folder and save the download there all from within the file save dialog. I am running as a standard user. I didn't even get any UAC dialogs. Please be more specific about what you are trying to do.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message Security is a big issue with Beta 2. I have set all the permisions to all accounts to full control and yet when I try to save a file to a formatted partition, I am denied access and I am asked to save the file under a recommend user folder. OK, so I did that instead. I try using Explorer to retrive the downloaded file and no matter what setting's I use, I am unable to see that the file exists. I then try to download the file again and save it to the exact folder and it already exists. I can not retrieve the file. Am I missing something as well?

"jonah" wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:54:08 -0400, Robert Robinson robbiex@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Programs and data that are copied from a CD-ROM or other source frequently are stored in a new directory that is set as read only. As a user with administrative privileges, you can remove the read only flag, but the system then re-sets it after exiting Windows Explorer. The only way to permanently change the security setting is to go through an awkward procedure to set the directory read/write for (all) users. I am puzzled that the flag can be set to read/write, but it doesn't stay set. Also, the security isn't of much value because an odd work around is to temporarily set the security with Windows Explorer, then leave Explorer open at this point. You can then write into the directory with another program. Write protection is only re-enabled after an exit from Explorer. The system should obviously not permit a change in read/write unless the user has permission to make this a permanent change. Robbie
Hi Robbie,
I have currently given up with this beta, the file permissions, UAC etc cause far too many problems and get in the way of using the thing. It appears to me as a bit of a dogs breakfast in its current form. Fair enough its a lot more secure than XP but as a knowlegeable user when I ask for admin control I want full admin control I do not need to waste my time working around security when in logged in as admin.
I will wait for RC1 and see if they have improved things a bit in this area.
Having said that the over paranoid security issues / lack of full admin control are the only thing I have against Vista other than that I like it very much.
Put a bug report in, hopefully MSFT will fix admin control properly, either you are root or not, this middle ground least access stuff is just silly.
Jonah

I agree with Jonah on this. I like the overall look of Vista, but their user and admin security controls are just downright "Silly" (especially all of the "pop-up screens asking me if I want to ALLOW or DENY a specific action). I uninstalled a program, and then went into the Program Files to delete the original program file that the program I uninstalled created, and it told me that "I do not have administrator privileges to perform this action"... while I was logged in as the administrator. I can appreciate MSFT's attempt at trying to make this version of Windows "Idiot Proof" for amatuer users, who do not know that they may be deleting a crucial system file, but they need to also realize that some of us actually know what we are doing!!!

Sorry about the multiple replies. Such a lag between posts.
I cannot access files or save files on the other two partitions either. I have the 64-bit ISO download to my C:\user\richard directory and cannot acces the file. It is there though and search does not find it. Yet when I try to download the file again it says it exists already. I can see the file in the save as dialog window, I try to copy it from that location to a place where I can actually save files to and a message comes up that the file no longer exists. This was a new install on a new out the box hard drive. Anything I am missing? I have set all users to have full control and still nothing.
"Kerry Brown" wrote:

Are you using the Microsoft File Transfer Manager? I have the same problem in Windows XP when downloading from MSDN. I never worried about it as it only happened when downloading with MFTM. It would only let me save to My Documents or a folder in My Documents. I don't know why you can't see it. Try searching for the file.
-- Kerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
Richard wrote: I set up a 160GB hard drive with three partitions. When I try to save anything on either of the second or third partition, it comes up with access denied. I downloaded the 64bit ISO file for Vista and wanted to save it to one of the partitions and the same happened- access denied (do you want to save it to C:\user\richard? So I clicked yes and it downloaded and is saved. When i browse for it it is no where to be found. I start to download it again and save it to the same location and it already exists. What permissions am I missing to access my own user directory?
"Kerry Brown" wrote:
Are saving files when downloading through IE or are you having problems with all programs saving files? I just tried a download from downloads.com. I was able to create a new folder and save the download there all from within the file save dialog. I am running as a standard user. I didn't even get any UAC dialogs. Please be more specific about what you are trying to do.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message Security is a big issue with Beta 2. I have set all the permisions to all accounts to full control and yet when I try to save a file to a formatted partition, I am denied access and I am asked to save the file under a recommend user folder. OK, so I did that instead. I try using Explorer to retrive the downloaded file and no matter what setting's I use, I am unable to see that the file exists. I then try to download the file again and save it to the exact folder and it already exists. I can not retrieve the file. Am I missing something as well?

I've tried to duplicate this and can't. I can always save to anywhere I have NTFS permissions except when I am using the Microsoft File Transfer Manager. This problem exists in XP so it's not the OS but the program. All other program I've tried work fine when saving a file. Sorry not much help. Make sure you report it to Microsoft.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message

Sorry about the multiple replies. Such a lag between posts.
I cannot access files or save files on the other two partitions either. I have the 64-bit ISO download to my C:\user\richard directory and cannot acces the file. It is there though and search does not find it. Yet when I try to download the file again it says it exists already. I can see the file in the save as dialog window, I try to copy it from that location to a place where I can actually save files to and a message comes up that the file no longer exists. This was a new install on a new out the box hard drive. Anything I am missing? I have set all users to have full control and still nothing.
"Kerry Brown" wrote:
Are you using the Microsoft File Transfer Manager? I have the same problem in Windows XP when downloading from MSDN. I never worried about it as it only happened when downloading with MFTM. It would only let me save to My Documents or a folder in My Documents. I don't know why you can't see it. Try searching for the file.
-- Kerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
Richard wrote: I set up a 160GB hard drive with three partitions. When I try to save anything on either of the second or third partition, it comes up with access denied. I downloaded the 64bit ISO file for Vista and wanted to save it to one of the partitions and the same happened- access denied (do you want to save it to C:\user\richard? So I clicked yes and it downloaded and is saved. When i browse for it it is no where to be found. I start to download it again and save it to the same location and it already exists. What permissions am I missing to access my own user directory?
"Kerry Brown" wrote:
Are saving files when downloading through IE or are you having problems with all programs saving files? I just tried a download from downloads.com. I was able to create a new folder and save the download there all from within the file save dialog. I am running as a standard user. I didn't even get any UAC dialogs. Please be more specific about what you are trying to do.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message Security is a big issue with Beta 2. I have set all the permisions to all accounts to full control and yet when I try to save a file to a formatted partition, I am denied access and I am asked to save the file under a recommend user folder. OK, so I did that instead. I try using Explorer to retrive the downloaded file and no matter what setting's I use, I am unable to see that the file exists. I then try to download the file again and save it to the exact folder and it already exists. I can not retrieve the file. Am I missing something as well?

It appears others are experienceing this problem as well. It may have something to do with IE7 security. See this thread:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management:362
If the link doesn't work here is a copy of the relevant post.
"figured it out. the problem is with Internet Explorer protected mode. Turn it off in Options->Security. the file you already downloaded is in C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Virtualized\C\Users\Username\Documents"
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message

Sorry about the multiple replies. Such a lag between posts.
I cannot access files or save files on the other two partitions either. I have the 64-bit ISO download to my C:\user\richard directory and cannot acces the file. It is there though and search does not find it. Yet when I try to download the file again it says it exists already. I can see the file in the save as dialog window, I try to copy it from that location to a place where I can actually save files to and a message comes up that the file no longer exists. This was a new install on a new out the box hard drive. Anything I am missing? I have set all users to have full control and still nothing.
"Kerry Brown" wrote:
Are you using the Microsoft File Transfer Manager? I have the same problem in Windows XP when downloading from MSDN. I never worried about it as it only happened when downloading with MFTM. It would only let me save to My Documents or a folder in My Documents. I don't know why you can't see it. Try searching for the file.
-- Kerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
Richard wrote: I set up a 160GB hard drive with three partitions. When I try to save anything on either of the second or third partition, it comes up with access denied. I downloaded the 64bit ISO file for Vista and wanted to save it to one of the partitions and the same happened- access denied (do you want to save it to C:\user\richard? So I clicked yes and it downloaded and is saved. When i browse for it it is no where to be found. I start to download it again and save it to the same location and it already exists. What permissions am I missing to access my own user directory?
"Kerry Brown" wrote:
Are saving files when downloading through IE or are you having problems with all programs saving files? I just tried a download from downloads.com. I was able to create a new folder and save the download there all from within the file save dialog. I am running as a standard user. I didn't even get any UAC dialogs. Please be more specific about what you are trying to do.
-- Kerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Shell/User
"Richard" wrote in message Security is a big issue with Beta 2. I have set all the permisions to all accounts to full control and yet when I try to save a file to a formatted partition, I am denied access and I am asked to save the file under a recommend user folder. OK, so I did that instead. I try using Explorer to retrive the downloaded file and no matter what setting's I use, I am unable to see that the file exists. I then try to download the file again and save it to the exact folder and it already exists. I can not retrieve the file. Am I missing something as well?